What are we gonna walk on?

[lisa]

The hardest part of this entire project plan for my log home has been the selection of wood species. Most of the decisions have been made and the wood ordered.

Now I am struggling once again with another decision on wood species and size. Any thoughts or comments on what should be used would be appreciated.

The question is --What size and species of wood should be used on the porch floor?


My home has an 8 foot covered porch completely covering all 4 sides.

So far I have

Eastern White Pine - walls 6 x12 w. dovetail corners
Western Douglas Fir - beams / porch posts
Aspen- ceilings

[Bret]

Our 2 choices were treated pine or western red cedar. We chose the cedar even though it was twice the cost of the pine. Every contractor around here that I talked to did not care for treated pine at all. They said the quality of the wood is not as good as it used to be and within a few years the boards cup, twist, crack, delaminate etc...and then you have to "treat" the "treated pine".

We looked at some of the new plastic composite decking. We didn't think it would look good with the logs and log railing. Some of it is quite expensive.

[JC Schultz]

Pressure treated pines contain arsenic- a poisonous substance which leachesinto the ground and surrounding areas.
I would not recommend using it to any of my clients- composite decking A.K.A. plastic kinda take away from a log home don't you think?
Choose a spiecies of wood that is rot resistant, stable and will take the abuse of traffic.

[blue eyed devil]

Chromated copper arsenate (cca) will be phased out early in 2004.
Treated wood manufactures will begin using Alkaline Copper Quaternary (acq) or other less toxic compounds that are not carcinogenic.
I've built many decks using cca .I'm sure glad they are phasing it out.I hated working with the stuff.Think of all the play grounds that have this garbage!

[Jim Marsh]

Lisa
I too went through this process of deciding what to do for the log home I am building. I too have covered porches with the exception of the greatroom side. I installed a tight knot cedar, and it looks beautiful to say the least; we even went as far as to use special hidden hold down "stealth" clips so that no screws would be seen and I could then have a very custom clean look.
The cedar is very soft and doesn't take very much abuse, high heel shoes or rocks stuck under shoes can really play havoc on a deck that cost $$$. I need to hire a security guard just to keep any subs or unwary people off the deck until my home is complete, that is if I want to keep my deck looking
beautiful at least until I can stain it. Pressure treated lumber looks pretty bad with splinters in a hurry!
The other day I was at my cedar supply yard and ran into their display and was amazed at the beauty of a hardwood mohogany.
I asked the salesman about it and he told me it works great. His
coworker installed this on his deck 10 years ago and said it still looks beautiful. I was bummed to say the least, the cost was only
$.77 a foot for 5/4x4. The cost would only be a little bit more than the cedar and its hardwood like a hardwood floor. Go figure...
next time?
I hope this helps your decision, I know it did mine.
:(

[Tim Bullock]

Mahoghany for sure...........lisa.......You are a great shopper........I am sure that you find some at reasonable cost.

[lisa]

I have to be a great shopper Tim! I have this little tiny budget for my dream home!

What I've found is a little knowledge in this industry goes a long way. On the topic of wood there are no less than a gazillion people out there peddling wood products and the price range is astronomical!

Mahoghany??? I need some education on this suggestion. What size is necessary for a porch? My old house had 2 x 4 treated pine. I want wider boards on my porch than 4".

How thick would it need to be for a porch?

Would it need to be treated? Stained?

What color is this wood? The furniture I have seen is always very dark- is this the natural color?

Where is it grown?

Would the products found at a place like Lumber Liquidators or Memphis Hardwood flooring that sell interior floors be sufficient?


I know I have a lot of questions, but no doubt there are many with answers on this forum!

[Jim Marsh]

Lisa,
Again I'm not the expert here, I'm just a guy who is building his first log home but loves to research, ask lots of questions and likes to really get the most bang for my buck.
Regarding the mahoghany:
I don't remember how dark the natural color, I think it's closer to a light medium brown. I think there are some advantages to using a narrow board over the wider board...Less chance of cupping and splitting.
Also special hardwoods like this type can get pricey with wider widths. They can make alot more narrow boards than they can
wide boards thus the reason for price difference.
As far as thickness goes? It depends on your joist spacing.
I believe with a max. of 16" on center 5/4 or 1 1/4 nominal will work nice. You may be able to span wider but not for sure, would need to check spec load book or ask expert.
Treating wood? Like most all wood, it should have some type
of protection to keep it looking good, especially outside.
Look in your local yellow pages...it's a great resource, saves alot of time, money, and shipping costs. call specialty lumber companies that deal with just lumber. Remember to ask them for someone else who might carry what they don't. They do get their
fair share of people calling them for odd requests. A place that specializes in cedar might be a good start in your area.
And by the way, don't forget to ask for a contractor discount if they offer one. worst thing they can say is no.
Alot of the big chain stores cater to the average weekend Joe
do it youselfer and don't offer discounts.
Hope this helps some
Best of wishes

[Tim Bullock]

Lisa, Jim answered most of your questions......I would go with 5/4" X 6".........really measures a full 1" and 5 1/2"........Space the joists maximum 12" o/c.........works better and only takes a few extra joists.........

[Darin Alexander]

You may want to give some thought to using IPE. Its a very hard and durable wood. Seen some for $1.00 a ft. (1 x 4). 5/4 x 4 was $1.35.

Darin

[lisa]

What is IPE?

[Darin Alexander]

IPE (pronounced ee-pay) is a very dense wood from South America. So dense that it dulls cutting tools very fast. It is supposed to be rot resistant, bug resistant and fire resistant.
I have heard some dealers claim that it has the same fire rating as steel or concrete. I have no idea if this is a fact, and I do find that very hard to believe. It is imported by many exotic lumber dealers and a simple search on the net will yield more info.
One source for wood species info can be located at woodweb.com

I will be looking for as much info as I can because it the leading specie of wood for my decks.

Anyone else have any experince with this wood?

Hope this helps.

Darin

[lisa]

Thanks Darin,

There is a lot of info on IPE via a google search. Here is a link with some pricing included with each species for decks.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/09/earlyshow/contributors/bobvila/main508511.shtml

[Kyle - Utah]

Hello Lisa,

I would have to agree with Bret that Western Red Cedar is an excellent choice for decking or porch material. Not only does it look good, but it also holds up extremely well even in the harshest of climates. If Cypress wasn't so outrageously expensive then I'd suggest that you go that route, but Western Red Cedar is a close second and for pennies on the dollar as compared to current Cypress prices. The only exception might be if you are building in the South where humidity and heat are always extreme. In this case I would probably take the hit and go with Cypress instead.

Best Regards

[lisa]

Kyle,

I am in the South where we have very high humidity and heat. Arkansas averages in the high nineties in the summertime.

I'm still looking and have not made a decision yet.

Lisa

[markjen]

Hi there, I am new to the forum but have some experience with wood as I was a lumber grader in a sawmill in CA for several years. Cypress and redwood would be fantastic choices for your deck except thatthey are prohibitively expensive. When I do build, I will use the cedar for my deck. It is very rot resistant and also insect resistant. It holds up very well and ages to a nice patina. I will use 2X4's as opposed to wider stock because of the cupping issue. If I could find it quartersawn properly than I would go with 2X6 or 2X8 stock and largely avoid the cupping issue. That is my 2 cents worth.

[lisa]

Someone dug up a very old post...... I've been in my house for over two years now---- I chose to use IPE and I am very happy with it. It has aged to a grey patina and looks very nice. There was a lot of grumbling from the folks that installed it because it had to be predrilled and it's a very dense wood. I spent over two hundred dollars just on drill bits before the entire porch was installed. In my laundry room we used some leftover wood to build the sink decking and then finished it with tung oil - it gave the wood a very dark look, much different from the natural aging on the porch. I like both of them and I am surprised at how different this wood can look when treated.

I am so glad to be able to be back on lhoti I just spent six weeks in ICU with a sudden near death illness. It makes one happy for every day the sun rises and I can assure you returning to my peaceful log home has really helped my recovery.

[Susan]

lisa,
sorry to hear you've been so ill! but I'm glad you're okay and recovering in your own log home.

[Axle]

I have to agree that for outside porches cedar is by far the best but it is also very costly. Especially since this will mostly be installed on a covered porch. We us a special profiled treated decking board. You can get them in either brown or green preasure treat. The brown is very nice. This board starts out as a kiln dried S4S 11/2"x 51/2"" spf (spruce, pine, mountain fir) board, then is ran threw a profile planner ending up with a 11/4"x5" board that has rounded corners so no chipping of the edges. When we install these board I leave 1/8"-1/4" of spacing between the decking boards to allow for swelling when the boards get wet. Also please use screws to attach your decking nothing worse then walking across a deck in bare feet and catching a nail head that is working its was out. There are also specially coated screws for use with preasure treated wood make sure you get the proper ones. The ones I use have a green coating.
I would think your local lumber yard, Home Depot, or Lowes would carry this style of decking.
This style of decking here is about 1\3 to 1/2 the price of cedar decking.

Hope that helps
Axle

[Sharon A]

I expect everybody else in the world knows this, but we and our contractors didn't --- if you want your decking to age, try to let it all sit out under the same conditions for awhile. Ours (mahogany, I think, or it might be Ipe) has aged gracefully where it's exposed to the light of day, but is still dark orange in the spots where it's sheltered. Live and learn. :-)

[Tim Bullock]

Lots of opinions with this one for sure so thought I would poke in with a few thoughts...IPE does not take stain or any finishes well....most cedar sold today is juvenile wood and will not last...now get some Port Orford cedar and we are talking real cedar!!!! Wood can sometimes be bleached to allow for covered areas to be the same as those areas exposed to the sunlight...Most PT wood is SYP and is not worth putting down as it will warp and check and look like poop after a short time...IF you can get good PT, It would be my second choice behind cedar...for absolutely no maintainance, I would choose IPE or mahoghany but research the different types of mahoghany prior to purchasing as it has the same problems as cedar....teak would be beauty if it is virgin teak as opposed to plantation.

[Greg Steckler]

(Port Orford is in Oregon) :D