Cleaning up those logs...

[Stephanie]

So, our first log home is nearing completion. FIRST, mind you, so I have little experience! The logs are "icky" and we've been told to scrub them with bleach, which is fine, but I know a guy who power washes, and he has power washed two log homes already.

Now, I hear you should LIMIT how much water hits these logs. So I'm wondering how smart it is to slam them with a lot of water.... I just read an article about basically a sandblaster that uses corn husks. So, that sounds better, but I can't find a THING about them!

Opinions and your experiences would be VERY beneficial for this newbie!

[Tidemobile]

I would stay away from bleach at all cost! I recently received a brochure from Menco that is offering a soluble blast media injector that works with your power washer. It looks like a great mix between the cob blaster and power washing. Has anybody ever heard of this system. It retails around $700.00 and a fifty pound bag of media is around $30.00 a bag.

[Jim Bilyeu]

Stephanie,

If you don’t want to use water on your home, that is fine, but please, don’t make this decision out of fear that water will hurt your logs. Up until a short few years ago, almost all log homes were power washed prior to finishing. It was only until the big 3 (Perma-Chink, Sascho and WeatherAll) started marketing this process that it really started taking off in this industry. This is a product that they sell so they are really pushing it.

Power washing log homes has been done for decades. Although power washing will not damage your logs, we do not recommend that you use just a power washer. We always recommend using a good cleaner along with the power washer. A good cleaner will loosen the dirt and grim and make to where you don’t have to use a lot of pressure. Power washing is much like cob blasting in regards to the operator. If the man behind the gun does not know what he’s doing, you’re going to have some damage.

Before you decide on cob blasting, I would highly recommend that you look at some homes that have used this method. Don't take anyones word on this, see for yourself. If nothing else, take one of your scrape pieces of log and have it cob blasted so you can see for yourself how it changes the texture. I understood you to say that this is your model home, if so, you will soon find out that people looking at it will want to touch and feel the logs.

I was at a log home show last year and a dealer had a log structure on display that had been cob blasted just down from my display. I watched a lot of people go up to that display, run their hands along the logs, shook their heads and walked away. This is something you do not want to happen if you’re a dealer.

[Dan Bodenstein]

There are some wood cleaning products on the market that do a great job of cleaning.


My site has some reviews on the following products.
Saver Systems TimberWash
Timberseal, Inc. TimberBright Pro
Timberseal, Inc. TimberStrip Pro

Also check out The Log Home Store for some other products.
http://www.aloghomestore.com

also
http://www.deckguide.com

Dan

[JC Schultz]

Stephanie,
We pressure wash every house after construction, using bleach.
IMHO this does not hurt the logs any, only removes most dirt,grime andweathering which has occurred during the construction process. During this time of year, we then apply heat to the home to speed the drying process and it takes only a day or so, then we can start the sanding process. The water used in Pressure washing is only on the surface of the logs, just like a 2x6 when left in the rain for a day or two.
After pressure washing we make sure to sweep and squeeegee the floor to remove all the standing water. Just be sure there is nothing below that could get wet

[Patrick Jenkins]

I used the Timberwash, Timberbrite, Timbersaver, and Defy stain on my house. It was real bad. It had been finished with Shingle Oil. Bad stuff. The mortgage and insurance made it clear I had to remove it and refinish the outside of the house. It is a water based system and did a great job. I have a house across the street from me who needs to do it. Everyday I am reminded of how bad mine was. If you want I can send you pictures of before and after pictures to show you the results. Email me and let me know. My wife and I did it ourselves. Contact a supplier and get a sample and try it. I got my supplies from a place called the Log Home Store. But I am sure there are others. Give it a try.

[Stephanie]

Thanks a lot for all the input so far. It certainly makes sense that a cob blaster would change the texture of the logs. We have milled logs, and so it is a rather "sleek" finish.

It looks like we have some differing opinions on bleach though. I need to take a look at some of the cleaning products that go with the power washer.

We have a home show this weekend in Richmond, VA, I think I'll ask around there as well. Certainly a company that sells a product will try to cast their product in a better light.

[Jeff Kyger]

Stephanie:

The cob blaster has become extremely popular. It doesn't pit the wood nearly as bad as sand does. I can get you as much info on the cob blasting as you want...but it would be an overkill for what you need. First....don't use bleach as most log home experts will tell you this. Pressure washers have not suddenly become obsolete, and for what you need, it would probably work great. It's easier, less expensive and quicker than blasting of ANY kind. If all you have is some dirt, grime, maybe a little mildew, a good non-bleach wood cleaner and a good hosing should give you the results you want. Sure...you may be left with a lot of "fuzzing of the wood"...or perhaps so little it won't be noticed from 10 feet away. Often when this happens, once it dries a quick brush strokes will take them off.

Hope this helps...

Jeff Kyger
Perma-Chink Systems, Inc.

[Tim Bullock]

Stephanie.......Unlike Jim or Jeff..........I do not profit from the cleanup/finishing of my log homes.......I do sell stain as I am a distributor of Sansin Products. I simply recommend that people get in touch with my sandblaster who blasts with glass beads and does apply the finish.........no comission either. Corn blasting is "bogus" as it ruins the logs despites Jeff's claims but then again Jeff does sell the blasters and the medium. Jim, Trust me, I have tried just about everything other than some of the new clean up chemicals on the market.......Power washing......wet sandblasting.........TSP.......and a myriad of mixes...... To date, Nothing has worked as well as glass blasting in terms of costs and for providing "tooth" for the finish.........If, the client wishes to hand sand after blasting.it is a breeze............Jim, Are you going to the conference?? Jeff, we have tried sand/black beauty/walnut shells/pecan shells and corn........Glass works better.......simple as that.

[Dakota]

Some recommended power washing, cleaners, bleech, etc.

How do you clean your logs if you have a milled log with a hand hewn finish applied to them?
I would want to clean them without ruining the hand hewn finish.

What is recommended for these type of logs?

Would power washing ruin the finish?

[Jim Marsh]

Tim Bullock,
It's very interesting about the sandblasting or should I say glass
beading, at least that's what we call it for doing custom cars to prep the body for a custom paint job. The only other option is a chemical dip. The glass beads are used because they don't pit the body like true sand blasting does. It's much easier for a custom 10-30 thousand $ custom paint job.
They also use it for other flawless custom prep work.
I don't see why it wouldn't work on a log to prep it for staining.
I'm wondering about shooting corn at a log though? It seems to me that cream corn would be softer though messy... just kidding.
I'm no expert, just wanted to add some thought on this very serious on going discussion.
I do have one concern, what about the clean up with the glass beads? short term and long term? How does one keep the grit out
of your teeth so to speak? If the logs could be blasted before they
leave the log yard; it could maybe avoid some cleanup: though
I must admit that sanding dust gets in all the places the sun don't
shine. The thought with chemicals and high water pressure also
concerns me. Remember the news story with regular insulation?
When insulation gets wet it stays wet for a very very long time,
thus...the reason for all the rotted wood in homes. They did a test
with a glass of water and dipped a piece of insulation in the water. The insulation lapped up all the water like a wet wash rag and they let it sit around for a week or two to try and see how long it would take to dry out...took forever. Unlike wool, thats the reason I used wool between and around any log work for insulating purposes.
Finally, I said all of that to address my concern with water pressure to rinse off cleaning chemicals. How do you prevent the water from getting between the logs and wetting regular insulation? Now you have the classic rotting effect going on.
Of course after the logs are cleaned and some type of weather seal or chinking is applied and the logs are stained it won't matter. And for some of us who are forced to build a log home in half the time it should really take to get it all right just because contracts are geared for the people who loan us the money to build our dreams. We may not have the time to slow down long enough to spray our logs and stain them only to have them get all
dirty again after building. To do it after the home is almost complete is kind of like buying a brand new ferrari and running through the car wash with the top down. The only option I see
for me is to spend a million hours sanding it by hand...kind of like
doing a fine piece of furniture. After all, it my log home and I will be the one living in it after all the dust clears and no more subs.
Just the little woman and me and sometimes family sitting by the fire thanking God for this beautiful Log home He helped me build.

[Susan]

Probably a dumb question, but....................do you absolutely
have to use either power washing, chemicals or blasting to clean your logs? Do they really look that bad when they're finally stacked? The reason I ask is that power washing, chems and blasting all sound like bad ideas to me. I've never seen a "freshly stacked" log shell before so I really don't have any idea how dirty they could be.

[Bob Warren]

Susan,

Yes a handcrafted house really can pick up a lot of dirt, sawdust and grime in the couple of months that it is being built on our yard. We spray a mild solution of bleach and household detergent on with the power washer with low power. Then turn up the power and clean it off with water. I don't use really high pressure or get so close to take off the top layer, but do get chalk lines, dirt and pencil lines off. We could do the same thing by hand with brushes and a regular pressure out of a hose..it would just take longer.

All our buildings are tarped for shipping so there should not be need for any further clean up at the final site.

[Jim Marsh]

Susan, I agree with Bob when it comes to cleaning the logs before they leave the log yard... I wish my log home producer would have done a better job in his yard before he shipped my logs. The scribe line were still on my logs.
One thing I forgot to mention in my last post: When I was talking
about sanding the logs, I was talking about sanding the inside only. On the outside, I'm sure I will clean them with a chemical and pressure wash them to turn them back to a nice color again.
Though I plan on doing some minor sanding where needed.
I would love to sand them like the interior because it looks so nice. The interior will be looked at alot more than the exterior up close. Besides it will help keep the dust from collecting as bad on them. and alot easier to clean. I can keep exterior clean by pressure washing once or twice a year.

[Kirk Trammel]

Let's get real on how to clean logs. Bleach is out. If you're still using it your homes you have problems. Glass beads, cob blasting, etc., may work for REMOVING an existing finish, but they are overkill for new construction. Try the cleaners and brighteners from the Advanced Woodcare Authority (http://www.awa.cc) and report back with your experience. Really . . . TimberBright and TimberWash don't hold a candle to AWA's products. Not a dealer or distributor, just a very satisfied customer.

[Tim Bullock]

Jim/Susan.......We do (as an option) sandblast and stain our homes "before" they leave our site........It works and has worked for us..........Unfortunately, We need a few days of "great" weather to get it done which is not always available............
Handling the logs for shipping is a real challenge too!!!!!!!!!! We simply photocopy the bill from the sandblaster and submit to the client........It is a service.........not a profit center. Kirk, I will try the stuff and let everyone know if it worked when spring "ever" comes.

[Bob G]

Susan, Stephanie-

My log supplier did NOT want me to power wash their log shell. They said to just lightly sand with a random orbital sander. I did a pretty thorough sanding job inside, outside I just sanded footprints and smudges off. I did miss a lot on the outside....going to touch up this summer. I have fiberglass in my lateral grooves. I suspect that water under pressure would have found it's way in.

[Stan Potter]

Hi,

The biggest problem with powerwashing is forcing the water between the logs. If you insulated between the logs with fiberglass it will likely stay wet for years while rotting your new logs from the inside out!

However, I have heard builders say that even if they built in a heavy snowstorm the logs and insulation between them were dry two weeks later when they used wool insulation (see: www.GoodShepherdWool.com) It's also a natural product and won't pollute the inside of your home with fibers that can give you lung cancer every time the wind blows-this came from a log home restoration specialist.

So I wouldn't pressure wash and would seriously consider insulating with the best, natural & healthy product out there, sheep wool.

Stan Potter

[Jim Bilyeu]

Just thought I’d jump back in here for a minute. Tim, which conference are you talking about?

What I really want to point out is that we live with chemicals on a daily bases. I believe that just the word “chemical” raises a red flag to some people. This is not chemical warfare. If I told you that I was going to strip the old finish off your house by using finger nail polish remover, what would you say. If I told you that I was going to wash your house with soap and water (remember the lye soap) , what would you say? Finger nail polish is a chemical stripper and soap is a chemical cleaner, how often do you use soap? Citric acid that we use to brighten wood is also used in the food industry. If you’ve ever eaten McDonald French fries, you’ve eaten citric acid. Citric acid is used in a lot of food preparation. Look in your cupboards and laundry room and see what kind of chemicals you have there, read the labels. Do you have a pool or hot tub, what chemicals do you use in them? Heck, even H2o is a chemical. We can’t go for a day without eating or using some form of chemicals. I guess what I’m trying to say here is that although we depend on chemicals to maintain life, we must also be cautious on how we use them. Follow manufactures directions.

Dry media blasting a car can no way be compared to blasting a log home or cedar home. Blasting wood is an art in itself. I have talked with numerous homeowners who have had their home cob blasted/sand blasted who did not like the general appearance of their home after it was done. When I asked why they did it, their reply was that they were told they had no choice, that this was the only way to clean a log home or to remove failed finish. This is why I tell people that if they are thinking of using this process, look at a few homes that have been done this way or have someone do a sample log so that you can decide if you like the looks of the finished product. If you like it, fine, if not, don’t have it done. It’s your choice…….

Tim, I am not really that familiar with your bead blasting so I can’t really say to mush about it. Although I have seen it done on other materials, I would have to see the results on a log home before I would recommend it.

I know that Tennessee Log Homes in Tennessee has a model home on their lot that was cob blasted. I wonder what kind of acceptance they are getting from it?

One other thing. I think Jeff did a good job on his reply. At least he admits that it would be over kill. That's a lot more than most of the dry media blasters would do.

[Dakota]

I'm reading don't use bleach to clean logs......just curious as to why its bad or shouldn't be done?????

Can someone explain.

thanks.

[Tim Bullock]

Jim, I would not hesitate to use so called chemicals if I thought it would do a better job and didn't kill anyone in the process...........
Cob blasting still sucks........no matter how you slice it or dice it..........We are ordering the product recommended by Greg and will try it...........Heck.......If it works.......I will use it.....
The conference is the ILBA........just outside of Ottawa..........Everyone has an issue with dirty logs...........
I remember taking a log building course 25 years ago........one of the former students was building his own home and the logs "were" black.........He dumped on straight bleach and didn't rinse at all.......the logs literally fell apart...you could grab bunches of wet wood 2" deep...........what a mess.......... I have used bleach and it works for some things but you must use a little and rinse well.............
We have experimented with a lot of blasting mediums before we got to glass beads..............you just gotta see it to believe it.
In my boat restoring work.....I have been using some of the 3m abrasives.........they work well for that.........on fibreglass......I can't imagine a client paying for a guy on scaffold with an angle grinder.........it is easy to create fuzz unless you are really careful......

[Jeff Kyger]

Susan:

Why do Ford drivers hate Dodge and Dodge drivers hate Fords? I don't know. I drive a Blazer because the price was right and it holds all my baseball equipment. Obviously there are a lot of contractors who love the corncob blasting because they have great results with it. That's the bottom line. The independent contractors push it a lot harder than I do. It doesn't leave a hand sanded finish, but I wouldn't call it ruining the logs either. Hand sanding a log is what leaves you a hand sanded finish. It's not nearly as rough on wood as a sandblaster is. Some contractors hate it...that's fine too. It doesn't really matter to me. What works awesome on your neighbors home won't necessarily work on yours. While I've never seen glass beads in progress...I hear they do a good job. While we sell and rent the blasters, I don't recommend them to everyone, and never recommend it as the first method of cleaning. Never. Let's not complicate things. Try soap (or a good log cleaner) and water. Cheap...easy...safe...fast. Maybe the results this gives you will be "good enough". Talk to enough log home professionals and do what the majority of them say. You won't hear them mention bleach. There are too many good products on the market that will simulate the result bleach gives you without damaging the fibers of the wood.

Jeff Kyger
Perma-Chink Systems, Inc.

[Susan]

Jeff, Jim, John, Tim, Bob and Stan...............good insights!! I asked my question because:
a.) I don't want to use bleach--forget the logs, I used bleach to clean the wood siding on my house and thought my lungs would never recover.......................will never use it for anything other than laundry again!
b.) I don't want to powerwash.................just doesn't make sense to push water at your logs like that.
c.) Chemicals (depending on what you use) can be hard on your skin, lungs, logs, soil, pocketbook and pets. Plus from what I've read, you have to use a lot of water to rinse with...... I will agree that some are as safe as Vitamin C (citric acid) but why risk it, unless you have to.
d.) That leaves using a mechanical method of cleaning, either sanding or blasting........sounds like lots of labor aaaannnnd lots of mess to use this method.
So I was wondering if you could do without a muscle cleaning and just scrub 'em down with a little bit of water and a whole lotta elbow grease instead........................
However, I have never seen a fresh stack of logs (except in pictures) so I have no idea how bad it can be. That's why I asked.
What I'm getting from your answers is that usually you have to use something, the condition of the logs can vary, and you should pick the method that will work for your logs and your situation?

Next question-does it damage your plywood subfloor to use a whole lot of water to clean your logs? Also, will any of the chemical products damage your subfloor? If your log supplier will offer the service, is it worth it to have him clean your logs before they're shipped................?


That's whole lot of questions, I know. Sorry!:)


Why do Ford drivers hate Dodge and Dodge drivers hate Fords?

Jeff, I honestly couldn't answer that one..............I have a Dodge Truck, a Ford Van, a Ford Fairlaine(64),a Buick sedan, a Ford SUV, a TR-6, a Pontiac and a Chevy sedan in my driveway.........keep telling my old man that we're an equal opportunity junk yard around here!:D

[Bob G]

Susan,

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "you should pick the method that will work well for your logs and your situation." When you chose a company for your logs they will likely tell you how to prep them, how to finish them, and suggest a product to use to finish your logs with. Whatever company you choose, they should know what protects their logs in different locations, has worked well for past customers and makes their houses look good....perhaps better than any homeowner or builder on this forum because they know their product. That's what I did and it worked!

[MikeS]

Bob

I can understand your log supplier not wanting to have you power wash the inside. If there is no seal between the logs that prevents water or moisture from entering the laterals, he has a point.

A number of log handcrafters use "Emseal" or similar products, on either the interior side of the cope and/or exterior side of the cope. The Emseal gasket is hidden behind the log joinery, not seen in the visible log joints. This and similar products are designed to prevent air infiltration, along with sealing from household moisture movement into the log laterals, and preventing wind driven rain from entering the laterals.

It is not good for fiberglass to get wet, since it holds moisture for a while. Wool is less a problem here. Both these specific products must be supplimented with another sealant to prevent moisture movement.

If there is a moisture barrier on the interior lateral joinery, there is no reason I can see to not power wash. On the outside, there is no reason to not power wash, assuming the log seals are proper. You MUST have a rain barrier on the outside. This can be the gasket I mentioned, or else caulk or chinking. One of these three must be part of your exterior seal system. Otherwise, wind driven rain will penetrate the laterals, along with water used to wash the log exteior. You should apply a rain barrier to the outside, no matter what, then pressure wash, at your option.

In fact, using chemicals, one does not even need to pressure wash. I've used strong hose pressure after using Prep from Perma Chink, and had great results. Other products mentioned on this thread likely will work the same too.

[Melissa]

Susan also asked about how you keep the sub-flooring from getting damaged if you are "washing" the inside of the log home before finishing. I have always wondered about that myself. Any answers?

[Bob G]

Mike,

Thanks for your comments. The initial staining of my house was done before any caulking. I've since caulked it with Log Builder inside and out....no Emseal was used. If I have to strip it in the future I wouldn't be afraid to wash it.

Stan,

I wish I had known about your wool products a couple of years ago!

[blue eyed devil]

Stan
Don't beak-off about fibreglass causing cancer. You may cause alarm to thousands of people who already have it in their log home.Yes, at one time it was thought to be carcinogenic.

http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/pagebin/pg000076.htm

"The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) changed its classification in November 2001:


Fibreglass is now not classifiable as carcinogenic to humans and is no longer considered “possibly carcinogenic to humans”.

The reasons for the change are:


Studies of occupational exposure during manufacture of fiberglass show no evidence of increased risk of cancer; and
There is an increased use of “biosoluble” fiberglass, which has been tested and found to be non-carcinogenic"

Any one who uses it, should still wear proper protective equipment.
Not trying to knock your wool product. I do believe it has some advantages over fibreglass.Annnnd Citric acid is not Vitamin C (ascorbic acid). Just bugging ya, Susan :D

[Susan]

oooops! :)

[MikeS]

How to keep the subfloor from being water damaged during construction:

First, use a quality plywood. I use western fir 5 ply PTSUL, not 3 ply SYP and definitely not OSB. Both these latter will de-laminate or swell. Request from your lumber supplier 3/4" western fir 5 ply PTSUL, tongue & groove.

If you are into a wet season, purchase surplus paint, namely paint mixed wrong. Buy a mop, and dump the paint onto your floor and mop it out. You can end up with some interesting patchworks of color.

[Stephanie]

This has been enlightening, thanks bunches for all the input!

It's pretty obvious to me that the wall structures are very different for some in this thread. I don't have insulation in my logs at all. There is a foam that went into any gaps and then a foam gasket and caulk between all the logs.

These are brand new logs (no stain has ever touched them), but they have all kinds of things on them. A little bit of mold, plenty of dirt, some scuffs here and there, you name it. Some lovely black water lines have appeared here and there too, that seems to have been a specialty of the Douglas Fir beams.

I know someone asked about how dirty stacked logs can get...they can get dirty! There's a lot of different stages where they can get whacked around.

[Stan Potter]

I suppose I will no longer be able to say fiberglass causes cancer because of the test results you mentioned Blue-eyed Devil. But have you seen what they where in the work place now where this stuff is manufactured? If you and your employees wore that get-up you wouldn't get lung cancer either!

I know a builder who built log homes most of his life and lost his lung to cancer. He says his doctor told him it was from building homes with fiberglass! The surgery to remove his lung wasn't a "cake walk" either. You only have a 50-50 chance of living through the surgery! Maybe they have a biodegradable product now too but it still is fiberglass, isn't it?

It's amazing what big business can do with money and lobbies to deceive the public. How can it cause cancer in previous tests and now it no longer does? Employees are completely covered and masked where this stuff is manufactured! I doubt even 1% of log home builders are covered that well each time they break open the fiberglass bags. So now the manufacturers employees won't get cancer but it doesn't mean you and your employess won't!

Stan Potter
GOOD SHEPHERD WOOL INSULATION
www.GoodShepherdWool.com

[Kyle - Utah]

Hello Stephanie,

Please don't tell me that you built without pretreating your logs! Although many may disagree, pretreating with any of the many reputable products out there eliminates the worry of what to clean with after your structure is complete.

Pretreating consists of sanding, scraping, or (shudder) turning your lumber first thing after it comes off of the truck. Then you dig a trench and line it with visqueen. Pour in your treating solution of choice and roll in a log; then another and another and so on... Stacking the logs so that they can dry properly is very important too.

All of this makes it much easier to scribe and notch your logs. It shows off potential defects before the logs are in place as well.

Most high quality treatment solutions will include products to prevent mildew, UV damage, and insect infestation without compromising your ability to add the stain and final protective coating of your choice after the structure is completed.

You might also want to note that the fiber of trees is designed to pass water from one end to the other and not to efficiently pass it from the outside to the inside or visa versa. If it were then shrinkage would not be a factor in log home building. Some moisture will seep in but keeping the ends of the logs dry is much more important than worrying about a bit of spray on the area that was once covered by bark.

If you are wondering why this practice is not as popular as the alternative, the answer is two fold. First, it is labor intensive as compared to just using a pressure sprayer on a completed structure. Second, the pool of protectant that remains after you are done is not generally environmentally friendly. Unless you know someone else who is preparing to build a log home, you should pump the remainder into a disposable drum and pay for the disposal of the hazardous material inside. If you do know of another builder, filtering the majority of the residue through cheesecloth will provide that person with a good start and you with 5 gallons or less of something noxious to deal with. (The same as what you might have to deal with if you use the traditional afterthought (spray-on) method. I should note that there are environmentally friendly products available, and that these might offer you the best of both worlds.

As for worrying about using a pressure washing system now, ask a member of your local US Forest Service what to expect. Chances are that's where you'll find a professional arborist who won't charge you to tell you not to worry about a single application of moisture using a pressure washing system. As for the cob pellets, they are wonderful for adding a 'beaded' texture to most soft woods. If you're looking for a way to add texture then cob pellets are a good choice. If you're looking for a way to clean a dirty soft wood surface then high-pressure water is the quick, easy, and inexpensive solution even if you forgot to pretreat your logs.

Best Regards

[Stephanie]

Kyle,
These are milled logs, don't know if that makes a difference to you. They've all been notched already and I believe treated in some manner.

Do you mean you should roll the logs in stain? That doesn't seem to be a very effective way to use the product. Our logs have been treated for insects and now they're up and need a bath and then they get stained and sealed. I think maybe you have another step in mind, but I'm not sure what it is.

Now, my manager in this business says that a 50/50 BLEACH solution! :D sprayed on the logs from bottom up and left for 20-30 minutes and then power washed off should do the trick. He says he's tried three different cleaners and found bleach to be the most effective. Some may need another treatment and nail streaks will need sanding.

I'm looking towards Perma-Chink products for the stain. How's Lifeline Ultra-1 with a coat of Proguard? We're then looking to use the Lifeline Interior. I want the Clear for the interior, except I'm doing the two bedrooms in different stains to help out folk: one with Pickled White and I can't decide which dark stain would be best, leaning towards Cinnamon or Stone Gray . I'd like some contrasts. Opinions, anyone?

Oh, and by the way, getting an experienced powerwasher doesn't seem to mean they are REALLY experienced... :rolleyes:

[Jeff Kyger]

Yikes! Nooooo, don't roll logs in stain whatever you do. Nothing good can come of that. If you need sample bottles of the 3 colors you mentioned, let me know. Also, keep in mind, the Ultra-1 stain is quite a bit different....both in color, "richness" and longevity. Plus...it's just one coat...two is very much an overkill. Either is compatible with Pro-Guard.

Jeff Kyger
Jeff@permachink.com

[JTD]

We still do not have a good answer on what to use. I am sure that Glass Blasting works great if Tim uses it. Is there a product that can be used (to brighten logs) that we do not have to go through a dealer for? The whole deal on using or not using bleach must have everyone confused. I know I am. If we do want to try bleach what is the best method to use it? Is there something that can be purchased at one of the home centers (Home Depot, Lowes) that will work i.e. citric acid ???? Where can we get this stuff??

[Kyle - Utah]

Hello Again,

By all means do not use the same process with stain that you should use for pretreatment of full-round logs! I will fall back to one of my favorite links for the suggested solution to your current situation: http://www.ahfc.state.ak.us/Department_Files/RIC/Construction%20Manuals/Alaska%20Log%20Building%20Construction%20Guide/7maintco.pdf

Also, there is a great difference between milled 'logs' and natural full-round logs. Many debates have heated up and cooled off about that very topic in the archived posting bases. Debates aside, I would recommend that you review the contract that you signed regarding the 'logs' that you purchased. It may contain something assuring condition at the time of delivery. If the supplying mill fell short of the standards promised then by all means make them clean everything up.

If you are 'on the hook' then I would suggest that you look at things from a slightly different perspective. If you intend to finish (drywall or other) the inside walls of your structure then your primary concerns should be proper insulation, good self-adjusting water barrier and prevention, insect prevention, and mildew or fungus prevention. If you are going to cover it all up anyway then there are many inexpensive commercially available products out there for milled log homes. If you intend to keep the bare milled look then there are similar, if not more expensive, products available.

As for the exterior logs, I strongly suggest that you assume nothing. If anything, I would assume that no pretreatment has been applied whatsoever. A good 400 psi pressure washer spraying clean water will remove most of the debris. Then you should wait 2 or 3 days. After waiting you have two options. You can either go over the entire structure with orbital sanders using 200 grit paper and then spray everything with clean water again or you can trust things as they are. Then, no matter which way you decided to go, apply a good UV protective treatment that includes a mildewicide and fungicide. This is not the surface coating. It is only a pretreatment that will add years to the life of your 'logs'. It will also help to prevent the 'black streaks' that you described in your earlier post. The 'black streaks' are created when uneven oxidization of materials occurs within the wood itself. It is not commonly, as some might have you believe, a form of fungus or other malicious organism. Still, if you prefer the look without it, I would suggest that you treat your timbers so that you won't have to worry with it anymore.

Best Regards

[Jeff Kyger]

JTD:

If you'd like a free sample of OxCon, I can get it out to you today. It's a concentrate that is diluted with water...2:1, 3:1, 4:1, etc...depending on the results you want. It's save, very inexpensive, effective as well as easy to use. Like bleach, it won't remove dirt, it's not a log "cleaner"...it's more of a log brightener (or blonding agent). Simply spray on and spray off. It's not at all damaging to the wood cells. It was specifically designed to remove water/stain marks as well as the usual greying process logs go through. Let me know.