Quote from "twobums"

[MikeS]

"~~only when the last river is poisoned,
the last tree cut,
the last fish caught,
will we realize one can not eat money~~"

Gene:

Just curious, what do you mean by this quote? Is building an upper end residence applicable to this quote? A log house, and any shelter for that matter, does consume a lot of renewable and non-renewable resources.

Obviously, trees are a renewable resource, and petrolium products are a non-renewable resource. Both are used in frame houses, and log houses. Both are used in houses wisely by some, and used foolishly by others. Some build a log home to last, and they will maintain it to last, while others build poorly and have it rotting in 5 or 10 or 15 years. The latter are wasting valuable resources.

I'm a forester by training, and a log builder by trade. I do believe in wisely using renewable resources. I believe in using non-renewable resources like petrolium products even more wisely, because once they are gone, they are gone. There is a LOT of objection to logging, yet we use this resource. There is no national debate about the use of non-renewable resources such as petrolium products (plastic, gasoline, foam products, etc.), yet we use this non renewable resource as quickly.

There is a big need for money to be provided for the managers of forest resources, federal and state forestry departments, so they can manage this important resource wisely. We as a country do not provide that money, and we do not talk about the importance of doing so. We just say, "Logging is bad", because it's easier to do.

Private forestry in industrial forests moves along at a much better pace, from what I've seen, than what is done in state and federal forests. The bottom line, money, does play into getting a forest renewed after its final harvest, on an industrial forest. An industrial forest is one owned by a paper producer or sawmill, and its management goal is wood production.

I had a customer once who felt very guilty about using so many logs for his second home. He did have us build for him, but we had several discussions about this throughout the process. I have no issue with using trees to support my family, because we build a quality product designed to last, and use renewable resources as much as possible. The resource in a log house is very obvious. Just look at the walls and you see logs, which obviously come from a tree.

We joke here in the northern vacation area, that the developer does not have his log cabin yet, but once he finds his property and builds his log cabin, then he becomes an environmentalist. How do others on this forum feel about using trees for a home, when there is so much objection to logging? Are you in favor of logging or against?

[Paula-in-CO]

I am somewhat of an environmentalist, but I don't have any conflict with our log home. The reason is simple. We have spent the time and money to put in a very solid foundation on solid bedrock. The house itself is solid wood and with the porches, hopefully protected. Our house will last far longer than it takes to grow new trees. Our trees are also standing dead, so removing them probably wasn't such an environmental "hit" to begin with. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but if maintained, our house should last for decades and decades and decades in our dry climate.

On the other hand, many of the houses I see built in the Denver/Boulder area seem to be disposable. The way they build them, I wonder if they will even survive the 30 year mortgage. Now THAT is wasteful.

[Joseph Murray]

IMO, trees are a crop. My log home is beying built with trees (white pine) that were planted 40 years ago by my logger when he was 12 years old. Wood floors, wood ceiling, wool in laterals. Vynal clad windows, tub surround and the wire wrapping will all be plastic, not sure how renewable they are. The roof will be metal, renewable ? recycleable? Will heat primarily with a wood stove( more renewable wood).Steel for stove ( recycleable)
I've heard that there are more trees in the United States today than any time in recorded history.
Will use well for water, renewable. Cinder block and mortar ? renewable ? If not, certainly long lasting. Fiberglass insulation in roof, made from sand , same as glass.
Cant think of a more enviromentally friendly use for all those products.
Every one who lives on this beautiful green planet is an enviromentalist. I steward the enviroment but also make sensible use of it. I hunt, fish, dont waste anything I get from either endeavor.
Have planted 300 pine trees on my land 12 years ago, most are 20-30 feet tall already so I guess I have replaced the trees I used for my home. Most of my firewood is from dead trees.
It is possible to use natural products without abusing them.
Joe Murray
:D

[Dan Bodenstein]

I believe that building / living in a log home is a step toward living in harmony with nature. A Log Home is natural.

Here is a simple test.
How do you FEEL when you are in a log home?
How do you FEEL when you are in a CBS home?

Two different feelings.

A man and a woman can walk into a log home and both get a different feeling. for many women it's a country hearth feeling, for men it's the rustic ruggedness feeling.

Log Homes are natural. They affect us in many different ways.

Why would it be ok to destroy 5 acres of forest to build a church or stripmall, but using the one acre of trees to build a log home is wrong.

It's not.

Thousands of acres are destroyed every day so that people can have conveiniences like a new Starbucks in their neighborhood.
How can that be alright, and building a log home wrong.
It's not.

When we built our home we only removed the pine trees that were where the house was going. All the other trees were left, and are still there today. We see new houses going up where people rip out 1.25 acres of pines only to build a CBS house and plant palm trees. That's sad!

Just my 2 cents.
Dan

[Rick Davies]

I recall a quote ( can't remember where) along the lines that an acre of high quality logs will keep a modern saw mill running for less than an hour. That same acre of logs will provide several days work for a low impact crew to cut and haul with horses, a few months work for a team of highly skilled log builders and a lifetime of enjoyment for the owner. Built properly it could easily see 5 or 6 GENERATIONS live in the home.

Log home builders and owners can sleep peacfully at night knowing their credit is good with Mother Nature.

Just my 2 cents

Rick

[twobums]

Mike... I was happy to see a post about that saying. I've always liked it, as it makes people think. There may be 10 people who read it, and they may see it 10 different ways.

Its not meant to offend anyone. But, hopefully, it will get people to think. Again, some will see it one way and others will see it another.

As for us, we're building a log home. And I won't feel bad at all about the trees used for it. Or the trees that must come down to make room for it. The firewood will be used and new trees will be planted.
And I certainly wouldn't stop someone else from doing the same.

Here's my take on the saying... Its a shame to live in a throwaway society. Where hopeless upgraders waste our resources. High end or low end, it doesn't matter. As Paula wrote, building a house that'll last 30 years or so just doesn't seem right.

There's lots more I could write, but its not about what I think. I have my opinions, and I'm not forcing them on others. Like I said earlier, I like the saying because it should make people think.

Gene

ps~ I may be looking to find a new signature, how's this one?

Where there's a will, I want to be in it!!!

[Dan Bodenstein]

twobums,

I've always like the Native American proverb

"A frog does not drink up the pond in which it lives."

Dan

[blue eyed devil]

Tell the forum your thoughts on modern logging and sawmilling.
Rick is correct.I'm willing to bet If you sent 8 of the best low impact loggers into the bush for two months with teams of horses.The volume they would cut in that time, would be eaten up before lunch, at the mill I work at.
A 12 hour shifts usually cuts 1/2 million bf. and often more (enough to frame 35- 2200sq ft homes).There are mills much bigger than the one I work at too.
Here is the problem:
There is something wrong with society and our consumerism is to blame!
There were 1.5 million housing starts in 2001 and the average size house is 2265 sq.ft. containing roughly 14 000 bf of lumber. It seems to be always in vogue to build new bigger homes instead of buying old.In the 50's the average size home was just 983 sq ft with 60% of all homes being under 1200 sq ft.
There also is alot riding/pushing our fercious appetite (my job included) like,appliance manufactures and the thousands of other things that go into a new house.