Best way to attach a deck?

[Patrick Jenkins]

Maybe somebody can help me out on this one. How do you attach a deck to a large log house. The doors are in first log. The log is centered on the fondation so the is a fair amount of overhang to the cement.
Do I build up from the fondation out to being even with the log? Or do I attach to the log?

[blue eyed devil]

Patrick
Where is the subfloor detail in your sketch? There are a few good ways to attach a deck and alot of really poor ways!!
Some building codes require the top deck surface to be minimum two inches below the house floor.Some codes allow the deck to be at the same level,but require slope away from the house and good flashing details.
There are usually a few things you have to design around like....H.R.V and dryer vents,B.B.Q hook-ups,hose bibs, basement windows ect,ect.
Most importantly,figure how much load the attachment method is supporting. You should always go for a minimium 60lbs live load.
Sometimes a ledger board attached directly to the concrete foundation will get you by.If you attach your header to the rim joist,I suggest using 1" HOT DIPPED galvinized all-thread every other joist space right thru the rim joist.
Mark gave me a couple RSS screws to try.(they are great).They are a new type of self drilling lag.I would use lots of these in combo with the all-thread.You can't over do this detail!!!!
Just do a google on "deck collapses" to see what I mean!!

[Patrick Jenkins]

Blue,
I torn the old deck off today. I love it when someone builds something without a clue. The deck was so poorly made it only took a hour to tear it completly apart. The deck was attached with a ledger board attached to the log. There was no flashing to protect the log. Over time leaves and other junk found its way under the board of the deck. Well the little critters found a nice to hang out. There all these little holes it the log now.
I will have to repair it before I can continue. Is it normal to attach the ledger board right to the logs? The sub floor is on the top of the first log. Remember I didn't build it.
Sorry the picture is so fuzzy.

[blue eyed devil]

This what I would do if it will work out without interference.Instead of using the house for support...........

Put an extra set of foundation piers four feet away from the house,then cantilever the deck joist back to the house. This will give you a good drainage path with no flashing nessasary for most of the new deck.It also allows that sill log to dry after a rain.
I think you should treat that sill log with boracol and impel rods before you continue........( If the damage is minimal)
I had to do this detail on one deck I build several years ago.I learned a hard lesson on the power of snow coming off a steel roof!!
This detail will work best if the deck is not too high off the ground.
I would'nt do it without extra bracing,if your more than four feet above grade.The reason is,you are now relying on the foundation piers for lateral support for the deck.

[Patrick Jenkins]

I already have it layed out with 4 foot spacing from the house. With a post every 4 feet in all directions supporting 4X8 beams. The post will be attached to 2 feet deep cement pillers with the 4X4s holding the beams. After seeing your picture, I was thinking about running a ledger board below the logs. And attaching post to the ledger with a board going to it. Does that sound like it will work?
I like the idea of the gap you drew. My deck won't be but 12" to 30" off the ground. I plan on a rock wall back filled with dirt for landscaping.

[blue eyed devil]

Sorry Patrick,I don't understand what the ledger board will be supporting without you drawing it for me.It sounds like you have a solid foundation plan.

Keep in mind that the ledger boards places vertical shear forces on whatever fastener is used.If you have to build it out past the logs using more than one ply of 2" lumber to catch the joists,your placing that much more shear on the bolts. There is a design values chart for wood to wood connections on the web,I just have'nt been able to find it.I think I read somewhere where a 1/2" lag was good for 180lb vertical shear load.

There won't be much load (if any) on a ledger using the layout you've done.I forgot to mention,the amount you can catillever the joist depends on the joist depth as well as thier total length!
I have to do most thinking in K.I.S.S mode so I tend to over build things

When you build anything,just keep thinking about were the water is headed.If you do use a ledger,it usually needs to be flashed or spaced away from the foundation using washers.This way,it can keep dry,lasting much longer.

[Patrick Jenkins]

Blue or anyone else,
Since they just changed the preasure treated wood, what is the best type or brand of the new stuff? :confused:

[blue eyed devil]

I've never really compared them,just built with whatever the lumberyard sent me.
Wolmanized Wood seems to be the big one in (atleast in Canada).I've used it in B.C and Ontario.Now that everythings' changed over,I don't know which is best.
If your lumber is rated for ground contact,it will be good!It will have the maximum amount of preservative.You can see for yourself on a cut end.If you can see a color difference in the heart,it's probably only "treated to resistance".
The ground contact stuff usually has sipes (little incisions) that help the treatment reach the core.You would'nt use this for top decking,just the framing.

The two most common new breeds you'll likely come across is (ACQ) or (CA)
ACQ stands for Ammoniacal copper quat.Copper is the main fungicide while quat is also a fungicide you will find in things like hospital cleaners and dairy processes.

CA stands for Copper Azole and is about 96% copper if figures I read are the standard.
I need to find out more myself.I don't like the idea of 100% copper against galvinized fasteners.
Here is a Wolmanized wood Link (http://www.naturalselect.com/)
If you come across any other good links,please post here.

[blue eyed devil]

It also depends where you live,as to what formulation of ACQ is used (there are 3 or 4 types).In the west ,ACQ-b is often used for difficult to treat western wood species.It's a dark greenish brown colour that will weather to a lighter brown colour.
I could be wrong,but I think companies like wolmanzed wood,just licence thier formula to wood treating plants across North America.

[Joseph Murray]

Just purchased some treated 1x6's to stack first round of logs on.
All the galvanized deck screws were 50 % off. Was told in lumber yard that I had to use teflon coated screws with new pressure treated wood because of chemical reactions with all existing deck screws. Research before you use that box of galvanized deck screws you have laying around.

[Patrick Jenkins]

Thanks Joe,
Thats agood thing to know ahead of time. Do the make teflon coated bolts and nails. Are the chrome plated looking bolts OK?
How will the brackets coming out of the concrete react with the post?

[blue eyed devil]

Joe ,
How did the re-assembly go for you?We've all been waiting anxiously for the pics!

Patrick
The chrome looking bolts are probably electro plated zinc.The trouble with them is the coating is pretty thin,and it won't belong before the dissimalar metal reaction will eat thru them.That is why I recommended stainless or at the very least hot dipped galvinized bolts.
If you have to use them,I would spray them with epoxy paint first......similar to what they use on rebar in bridge construction.

Grace makes a new product similar to thier ice and water shield to be used under your deck boards and also for flashing around fasteners.In the FAQ section...........They also say it prevents alot of the dissimalar metal reaction from happening.(I would have to see it, to believe it) Here is the link......Grace Vycor (http://www.graceathome.com/pages/deckingprod.htm#DECK_PROTECT)

[blue eyed devil]

All things concidered, I think 5/4 cedar radius-edge to be the best value for decking.P.T. lumber has jumped probably 30% in the last year or so.It also comes soaking wet,or dry and twisty.They even sell special blades for cutting P.T.

I bought some 5/4 cedar from a small local mill. He picks the best side,then puts a radius on those two edges.It's dried to around twelve percent.
If you use a deck fastening system like "Tiger claws" or "Hidden Deck",she'll look MINT when your done!! :D

[Patrick Jenkins]

Blue,
I ordered a sample of the Tiger Claws. I can't seem to find the Hidden Deck website. I found several others though. I am still trying to figure out the cost of them. The main level of the deck is about 1,800 sqf. so far. The lower deck I am still playing around with the design. I have a feeling when I get done the whole thing may be around 2,200 + sqf. I made the mistake of watching a show on HGTV on outdoor kitchens and BBQs. Got the wheels spinning so fast it looks like a Funny Car!
I picked up 2 pallets of the concrete. 56 bags a pallet at 60 lbs apiece. works out to 6,720 lbs, moved of the truck, then moved to where I need to mix them. Add water, stir not shaken, and shovel into the tubes. Man that is a lot of weight I have been doing. No wonder I am so sore and tired. I have 37 of the holes filled so far. 25 more to go on the upper / main deck.

[blue eyed devil]

Deck Master is the one I was refering to......at Home depot and others
Link......
Hidden deck (www.deckmaster.com)
Simpson strong-tie makes a nifty little deck anchor....DBT1Z
Simpson deck anchor (http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/DBT1Z-DJT14Z-DPTZ.html)

[Jim Marsh]

I used a hidden deck clip called the stealth clip...the problem was when the boards dried and twisted a little they had a tendacy to dig into the side of the soft cedar and as a result...some of the boards are gapped a little wide now with no way of fixing them without face screwing the boards back in thier correct position. I called the mfg. and they said that they would refund
my money if I returned the clips? Wow! Gee...I guess I could pull my deck
all apart and return the clips...Duh! Make sure if you use any hidden clips, you might want to ask around for other contractors opinions on them.
I will say this...next time I want to use a hidden system I will use the plastic
biskits instead, I realize that they are not cheap to buy, but then, neither were my stealth clips. The hidden system does look nice though. By the way...it takes allot more labor to install them even though they make it sound so easy. I also like the idea of using Ipe instead of the soft cedar if the budget affords it. The soft cedar can really take a beating with any of the subs around...I had to keep a sawed off shotgun handy to keep everyone away from my deck until my home was completed. People just don't understand and appreciate hard earned money spent on a deck.

[Patrick Jenkins]

Blue,
The P/T wood has gone up closer to 45% where I live. And it is in short supply. I am having a hard time getting the sizes I need. 4X4X8s are hard to come by right now. There is a building boom right now in the area I live in.
I am also hearing that the stuff like joist hangers can decay real fast with the new wood. So I am thinking the post saddles etc... will have the same problem.
I was so shocked by the new wood prices that I am going to do my deck in stages. The main deck will be 1300 sqf. I will do the other levels as time and money permit.
I looked at the Tiger Claws they were about $1,500 just for them. Might be out of range. Sticker shock on all fronts. :eek:

[blue eyed devil]

If you look at some of the new hardware for building decks,it's powder coated.I don't know whats underneath the powder coat,but powder coat finishes usually stands up to the elements very well and will isolate the dissimilar metals.

[blue eyed devil]

One thing that I always do,is paint all the ends with end-cut preservative (while I'm framing)which is copper naphthenate.Who knows what the chronic
health effects would be,but I usually end up getting this junk all over my hands before I'm done.
I'm going to start using Sansin PTL instead.It should protect the wood just as well and they claim it slows the leaching of copper salts from the wood.This would be safer for the clients and would also slow the corrosion of joist hangers if I paint those areas too.

[Jim Morvay]

Here's a link to an article in today's Washington Post about the interaction between the new ACQ, CBA abd CA-B treatments and deck hardware.

Deck Lumber, Hardware Present Risks (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56891-2004Apr30.html)

[Patrick Jenkins]

I don't know if this would be overkill or not. But I put tarpaper between the PT wood and the metal. I hope it helps. I already had the paper from doing my shower.
The deck is coming along pretty well. The last joist is in and I am shaping the deck now. I will start the framing of the BBQ and Gardening area this weekend. I have been looking at outdoor kitchen ideas. I think I have that part figured out.
Kinda excited about doing the concrete counter tops.