Hand Scraped wood floors

[lisa]

I saw a hand scraped wood floor made by Pinnacle. I am wondering if anyone participating on this forum has seen this type of hand scraped wood flooring installed? It seems perfect for log homes. I'll add some links to some pictures below

http://www.wideplankflooring.com/feat_prod.cfm

http://www.goldenstateflooring.com/Flooring/main.cfm/PIN/-/-

http://www.ridgefieldindustries.com/hand_scraped_floors/

http://www.patinawoodfloors.com/our-products/images-shared/images-samples/prov-plnk-mont-lrg.html

http://www.patinawoodfloors.com/index.html

[BradBradstreet]

Lisa, we went with 12 inch wide pine boards for our flooring on the first floor. We were told that anything over 8 inches should be face nailed. So, we used antique square headed nails.It has worked well - but, will be a pain when we have to sand a bit and refinish.

[lisa]

The one I saw in a wholesale showroom is priced at $8.00 per square foot. This price did not include any installation. I really like the look of the one that had square pegs at the joints. I don't know if they are just for look or are true pegs.

[Kyle - Utah]

Hello Lisa,

If you are the DIY type then I would suggest that you look for a nearby stand of Aspen, Poplar, or other 'trash' trees. If you can find standing dead then most property owners will allow you to remove them without charge.

An Alaskan type chainsaw mill, a standard table saw (or even a Skil type saw with a long true metal straight-edge), and a 13" thickness planer will afford you all of the board-feet of lumber that you want. I used this setup for Aspen paneling in a small two-story mountain cabin. (1st floor 32 x 40, 2nd floor 40 x 40 - It's on a rather steep slope.)

Ripping and sawing the raw logs into rough planks took about 70 hours and planing took another 30. I would imagine that you could turn out a 20 x 20 floor in a single day with two people working together.

I would suggest that if you go this way you assume that bigger is better when it comes to chainsaws. My personal view is that Stihl is #1, Poulan is #2, and Husqvarna is #3. (This is somewhat similar to the Apple/IBM controversy - only in chainsaws instead of computers.) No matter, 50ccs or larger with a ripping chain is a good rule of thumb.

I personally like the look of 10" then 6" then 8" and repeat, but you can certainly use 10" exclusively if that is your thing. You can also make your floorboards as thick as you'd like, although I wouldn't go more than 4" because of she sheer weight involved.

When it comes time for the installation, the level of your floor joists will determine how easy or difficult things will be. Use Mason line to create a 1' x 1' 'web' over the entire flooring area (That's a total of 22 strings in a 20 x 20 room). Use plastic (no squeaky floorboards years down the road) shim blocks to bring everything up to level. Then install your subfloor and be sure to secure Grabber type screws through plastic shims where used.

If you are building with dry standing dead then there should be no noticeable shrinkage, but expansion could be an issue. The choice is entirely yours as to whether or not to include a spacing gap. Countersink pilot holes as you go and use Grabber type screws. Once it's all down and secured, use contact cement and tap plug dowels into countersink openings. (Leave them a little bit long because it's easier to take away with a sander than it is to add if they're too short.) The only glue used is the plugs to cover the screw holes.

It might sound daunting but it could be a weekend project for two motivated people. Finish sanding and the application of the final finish is another day's project. Once completed, I can assure you that there will be no better floor on the planet! (It's just somehow uplifting to know that you've turned real trees into something that would normally require various 'professionals' at several steps along the way.)

Best Regards

[Susan]

Kyle,
An Alaskan type chainsaw mill, a standard table saw (or even a Skil type saw with a long true metal straight-edge), and a 13" thickness planer will afford you all of the board-feet of lumber that you want. I used this setup for Aspen paneling in a small two-story mountain cabin. (1st floor 32 x 40, 2nd floor 40 x 40 - It's on a rather steep slope.)

I'm glad that you brought this up.....My land has quite a few red oaks that will need to be taken down to make room for the house. I was fretting about wasting these logs - so my boss (a hobbiest furniture/cabinet maker) suggested that I use them for some of the flooring in the new house. Since it sounds like you have some experience with this, could you tell me if you think it really is something a DIYer could do? Also, the trees that will have to come down are not huge, probably only 12" diameter at the base, would there be enough usable lumber to make it worth the effort? If nothing else, these logs will be used for firewood, but if they would be better used for flooring then that's what we'll do.

[Susan]

I just wanted to point out that ANYTHING is possible for a DIYer, many have scribed and crafted their entire homes, as William Lasko teaches them to do.

Alan,
I agree, with the right motivation and instruction, human beings can do just about anything. :)

[lisa]

There are limits to this DIY's ability. The suggestion is appreciated, however it makes me tired just even thinking about it. I am a nurse and work about 60-70 hours a week. I think the $8 figure looks mighty nice in comparison to becoming a lumber Jack.

Alan, you mentioned Pergo - I had that type of floor in my home before it burned. It was a problem in many ways. In the kitchen it would swell in the winter and anything that fell on it would chip the laminate. I am going with solid wood from now on.

Lisa

[Darin Alexander]

Susan

Seeing as how your husband has some woodworking experience with woodworking flooring is very duable for the DIYer, plus it can be used for other uses such as trim and even cabinets. What species of oak is it?

To answer one of your questions. A 12" diameter log thats is 8' long will yield about 40 board foot ( it depends on what scale is used but thats a close average)

A board foot is 1"x 12"x12"

This will give you a idea of how much lumber you can get from your trees.

If you will give me a better count on the trees (length before limbs and a count of the trees) I can give you a more accurate footage estimate. Lets figure your board footage to see if it would be worth your time.

Darin

[Darin Alexander]

Now that I have reread your post I see that you oaks are red oak and its your boss that has the experience. Sorry about that, guess I should quit trying do to three different things at once. My three year old wants his supper. Anyway we can figure if you have enough trees to make it worthwill.
Darin

[Susan]

Darin,
Thank you! I'll be up there next weekend and I'll try to get an idea how many trees, size, etc. Is there a formula or book out there that gives info on the amount of board feet in a tree? The only book that I have that gives any direction at all says something about a "cruising stick" but it doesn't give a real good explaination of what that is. Any insight you could give me would be appreciated!

[Kyle - Utah]

Hello Susan,

Red Oak is very tough wood. It is also beautiful wood. There are those dedicated enough to process it as I processed the Aspen that I used, but I wouldn't be one of them. A portable bandsaw mill would be a better choice for Oak. And then there's the option of felling and trimming the trees and placing them on a trailer. Then, you just haul them the closest lumber mill that will convert them into boards for you.

As for how much wood you can expect from an individual tree goes, draw out a circle that is the smallest dimension of your tree. This is usually located near the upper end of the tree. Then you bisect that circle and subtract the blade width right down the center of the line. If your typical blade removes 3/8" then you would show 3/16 on each side of the bisecting line. Then you subtract another 1/8" from each side for planing to a smooth surface. This gives you 5/8" per cut that is lost to cutting and milling. This is the amount that you must use to calculate the milling layout of your specific tree. From there you lay out the cuts to create the most useable lumber that you can get. The widest boards are typically cut near the center and the smallest are cut away from the center. Some people prefer to 'cut out' the center as a board all by itself. In soft woods this creates a board with all of the heartwood in its center. This is generally a very weak board. In Oak it might work though.

I hope that this answers your questions.

Best Regards

[lisa]

Honest it was Pergo brand- I first had it installed in 1996 and had it replaced in 1999 after a leak in the ice maker. With both installations anywhere that moisture was abundant such as the bathrooms and kitchen, the floor always swelled and became bumpy in the winter--in the summer it was just fine. I think the kids rollerblades really caused most of the chipping. The floor I had was a whitewashed wood look.

[Darin Alexander]

Susan,

Yes red oak is a very hard wood after it dries. Thats why a lot of people will work it when its green. When its green its not that diffucult to work with.

You can find a log volume calculator under lumber and timber calculators at this site. http://www.woodweb.com
Also this website has tons of useful info.

Some things to be aware of:

1. You lose a couple of inches due to the bark on the diameter.

2. Look for trees that are leaning abnormally, have spiral grain (the bark will spiral around the tree) you want the bark going straight up and down. Either condition could indicate "tension wood" (not good)

3. Quarter sawn red oak makes some beautiful boards (it highlights the rays) With quarter sawn anything it will cost a little more to produce. You will not get as much lumber from a log, but quarter sawn will be stabler than plain sawn.

Hope this helps
Darin

[lisa]

Alan,

It was a white foam looking thin layer that went down under the flooring. I had the Pergo rep out twice to look at the floor and their warranty was not worth the paper it was written on. Home Depot even told the Pergo rep they should honor the warranty and he told them they would not cover water damage and since the floor was damaged anyway they would not cover the chips.

It's not like I let the kids rollerblade---they did it while I was gone however one always tells on the other. I don't have to worry anymore ( I don't think) as they are now both grown, one in the Navy and one in the Coast Guard. They probably did much worse than rollerblade but I am going to continue to be ignorant by choice.