Lincoln Logs© style mock ups

[Kyle - Utah]

Hello,

Most of us have at least seen Lincoln Logs© and others of us actually played with them when we were kids. Now that many of us are kids with deeper pockets, some want to build with full-sized 'Lincoln Logs'.

I strongly recommend the use of scale modeling before going out and building the real deal. If you go with 1/2" scale (1/2" = 1') then it's rather easy and inexpensive to create a mock-up.

Making the 'logs' is a simple matter of taping a dozen or so 1/2" dowels together into a 'flat board' using masking tape, and then making a few passes over a dado blade set to remove material in 1/2" wide swaths that are 1/8" deep.

Although I am sure that Hasbro© would be much happier if you decided to just use what they have to offer, building to scale with your joints where they should be gives a much more realistic view of your plans in miniature.

I've come to find that 1/2" scale miniature furniture is a bit difficult to find, so I make crude scale furnishings our of small boxes or anything else that I can get my hands on. 1" scale furniture is all over the place but 40" x 1" dowels are a bit on the 'spensive side. I've also seen 1" O.D. white PVC sprinkler pipe used, but I just like the look and feel of real wood. No matter what scale or building materials you prefer, spend the $20 to build your dream home in miniature before you spend $100,000 on the real thing. Placing mock-up furnishings where they would be in your log home will show you just how much space you will really have.

If there's only one foot of space between the bed and the dresser then you might decide to move the wall a bit more to allow for more conveinent living. An inexpensive mock-up will point out some of these glaring issues. Similarly, if your wife wants a sunken jetted tub in the bathroom, you will be able to see what other item(s) must be sacrificed in order to make this a reality (There's absolutely no sense in trying to change her mind, but at least you'll know what you've got to work with.) I personally believe that the number one statement that most people say after seeing a scale model is, "It's too small! - We're going to have to build it larger."

This process is especially useful if you're looking at kit homes. Many kits look quite spacious until you start cluttering them up with things like furniture, appliances and such. A dead giveaway for this to me is when I see thin-spindle furniture in the brochures and pictures only taken from angles. (If they need a macro lense to take a picture of the room straight on then chances are that it's not going to leave a lot of room for practical living.) All of this is brought to light when you have a miniature version of it in front of you. I should note here that not all kits are cracker boxes. Some are spaciously and well designed homes. (And the single Alaskan company that makes them.... J/K).

If you're on a very tight budget then 1" x 12' white PVC sprinkler pipe is $ 0.84 per length where I live. You will discard the 3" section where it is expanded out at one end. That leaves you with 141" to play with for every 12' length that you buy. If you cannot build a mock up with 23 pieces that are 141" long then your planned structure is either very large or it's a very good thing that you found the most honorable contractor on the planet as your builder!

Best Regards

Lincoln Logs© and Hasbro© are the sole property of Hasbro Companies, Inc.

[Dan Bodenstein]

I have been working with a home design software package from Punch Software called Professional Home Design.

It has a a 3D Model interface that prints the shapes to be cut out on regular paper. I have yet to try this, but here is an excert from their web site.

3D RealModel
Only Punch! software lets you build a professional-looking 3D scale model of your homeplan. Our RealModel technology takes your home design and creates the components needed to produce a model...directly from your design file. All of your chosen colors and textures print to your color printer, for you to mount on foamboard, trim and assemble.

http://www.punchsoftware.com

Personally I prefer it over Broderbunds 3D architect 5.

Dan

http://www.punchsoftware.com/images/prointerface.jpg


http://www.punchsoftware.com/images/pro1.jpg

http://www.punchsoftware.com/images/proscreen2.jpg

[Stephanie]

I just got that software! It was a bit tricky at first, but it is getting easier as I go along. I thought it would be very helpful to create 3-D models. I wish it had logs, but it does have wood texture, so I suppose it will be close!

[Dan Bodenstein]

Stephanie, One of the wood textures IS logs on my copy.
I haven't used it in a while, but I will check it to see where the Logs are.

Yes it was a bit tricky to learn at first, and it could use some improvement, but I do like it much better than the others.


Dan

[Dan Bodenstein]

When I'm ready to convert my design into finished plans, I'm sure I'll contact Greg. But for now, I am going to design my home and play with the design till I'm closer to a final product.

why pay for changes until you have the starting point.

Software like this gives people the ability to try different styles without being cost inhibited.

The 3D isn't perfect, the models aren't perfect. But it gives us the opportunity to experiment.

Dan

[Dan Bodenstein]

Stephanie,

When you select the Wood Textures, scroll all the way to the bottom. There are horizontal and vertical logs.

Dan

[Kyle - Utah]

Hello Software Enthusiasts,

I too believe in the use of CAD software or its equivalent. I personally use Auto Desk Software's AutoCad 2002 3-D Retail package. Still, this is not a hands-on example of what you will be building.

I am sure that the software applications that you described have a learning curve that's a lot less steep than AutoCad as well. Still, it's not sitting right in front of you so that you can touch it.

Plotted or printed CAD drawings also make a good start as far as seeing what you'll be working with, but they're not a full 3-D model that you can manipulate on the floor of your livingroom.

For those of us who are tactile learners a mock-up is a very nice thing indeed. It can mean the difference between just thinking about the dream of a log home and putting that dream into action. "If I can make it in miniature then I know that it can be done!"

It is also nice if you happen to run across one of those rare smarmy contractors who wants to sell you their pre-fab unit number 12A. When you point and ask, "How much to make this in 12" timbers?," it kind of takes all of the wind out of their sails. If they get pushy beyond that then it's quite easy to escort them politely to the door.

About the only worry that the typical builder might encounter is that of logs with too great a span. A quick reading of the guidelines provided by the Canadian and American Log Builders Association will give the average builder more than enough to know the generally accepted limits. This will provide her or him with enough expertise to determine what is and is not acceptable. After that it's just like playing with building blocks and the aspiring homeowner can touch the finished product! (Have I mentioned the value of solid over virtual here yet?);)

Everything seems to have its place, and I am all for the use of CAD or its equivalent. Given the choice though, I'm fairly confident that the typical person off of the street is more likely to create a practical model using miniature logs than he or she is to take the time to pay for and learn a new set of software commands. If the goal is to get people interested enough to actually build, my vote is always for hands-on over virtual.

I would really like to see one of the timber framing trade shows set up two 'play areas'. One would have a bunch of PVC 'logs' in varying lengths with tables for simple construction and the other would have PCs with simple drafting software. As long as there were adult shills 'playing with' each type of product, my guess is that the line to 'play with' the plastic logs would be longer than the line to 'play on' the PC. (If printed output from the PC 'game' were available then that would tip the scales in its favor. Similarly, if the builders could take home their created PVC models, that would tip the scales in its favor.) I would really like to see this happen sometime!

Best Regards

[Dan Bodenstein]

Maestro,

I know these programs don't provide blue prints. All I use them for is for designing a floor plan, and to get a general idea of what I want.

Let's face it, designers cost money. If I can get as close as possible to my end design/floorplan alone, I can save some money, and save the designer time in re-dos.

I'm not in a stage yet where I am ready to work with a designer. But I have a basic idea of what my next log home will look like. I use the program to build on that idea.

I am curious about designers/architects and the depth they go with the plans. When we originally got our final blueprints from Southland Log Homes, the county plans examiner said "Where are the rest of the pages?"

We asked him what he meant, apparently, they require everything from nailing schedules to breakdowns on how the logs are connected to detailed cut-aways of roof attachments.

We sent the plans back to Southland who told us they no longer use the engineer who did our plans, and weeks later we got a set of plans from another engineer. This included things like basement options, dormer options,.... we had neither.

So we went from too little to too much. Now since Florida requires Sealed plans, these guys had to be registered in Florida. How can two different independant designers registered in Florida provide such vast differences in plans?

What is in a typical set of plans?

Dan

[Greg Steckler]

What is in a typical set of plans


Below is a part of our typical contract and a specific instance of a modified stock plan:

Service Description:
Design new building based on client’s goals and our stock plan “The Three Sisters”. Adjust existing construction documents describing the requirements of the structure. Documents will show enough detail to gain a local building permit and to effectively and efficiently guide the construction of the project. Please note: Log Rhythms Inc. is not a licensed engineer. If engineering is required to obtain a building permit, that would be outside the scope of this proposal. However, we have estimated the implementation of engineering and have included that cost in this proposal.

documents will include:

SITE PLAN(per site)
FOUNDATION PLAN & DETAILS
FLOOR PLANS
ELEVATIONS
FLOOR & ROOF FRAMING PLANS
CROSS SECTION
CONSTRUCTION DETAILS AS REQUIRED

important note:
The design services described above DO NOT INCLUDE: surveying, structural engineering, HVAC design, interior elevation drawings, electrical plan, materials specifications and/or landscaping plans.
You will find the Design Phase categories Programming, Schematic Design and Design Development listed below. We have provided descriptions of each category below to help clarify the initial design process.

programming:
outline scope of project gaining information from client such as budget, space requirements, site parameters, and any outstanding features of the project. This also includes preliminary meeting time with clients and proposal preparation.

schematic design:
develop preliminary floor plans and exterior elevations based on information and feedback from client. These initial sketches shall identify spatial relationships between rooms, structure orientation on site (views, slopes, etc.), environmental impact on structure (solar gain, tree coverage, etc.) and the connection of the structure to its surroundings (orientation of doors and windows, entry area, exterior private space, driveway, etc.).

design development:
review and refine schematic design until the client is satisfied with the floor plans and elevations. Receive client’s “final approval” before initiating construction document phase. A client’s dated signature on a floor plan drawing signifies “final approval.” Client-requested Design and Drafting changes following “final approval” will result in additional hours added to the project at our standard hourly rates.

Please know that we are assigning a total of three to four client meetings (through internet website and/or phone conferencing) to the Programming, Schematic Design and Design Development categories.


fixed fee:
Design Service Fees are based on our good faith estimate of the total number of hours we will require to complete your drawings. Your fee assumes we are provided all current CC & R’s and design guidelines for your subdivision (when appropriate) as well as zoning information and service locations (water, sewer, gas, electric, etc.)

Stock plan fee: $xxx The fee for our stock plan “The Three Sisters” at 1412 sq. ft. is at a fixed price of $xxx per square foot.

Fixed fee for changes: $xxx Fee includes a basement with garage and moderate changes to the main floor plan. The changes to the existing stock plan include: 1) wall construction will be stick frame with log accent, 2) add a “full” basement, totaling 1412 sq. ft., with a two car garage and a bedroom and utility room, 3) add 136 sq. ft. to the main floor and adjust open loft, 4) reduce the open loft back to cover ½ of the main floor 5) design for more glass in the front gable wall, removing the truss work and cutting the roof overhang back to 2’, 6) redesign master bath and mud-room space to include another ½ bath. Changes to the stock plan are estimated to be 35 hours at our billable rate of $75 per hour. Again, alterations to the design after client’s “final approval” will be billed at a rate of $75 per hour, and will be in addition to the fixed fee identified above.




payments:
Payments are as follows:

1. RETAINER - 25% of total Fixed Fee - due upon acceptance of proposal (as identified by client’s signature below)

NOTE: Your project will be assigned a CALENDAR START DATE once we receive the Retainer payment.

2. INVOICES - hourly billing on a monthly basis – DUE UPON RECEIPT

NOTE: Invoices reflect the total number of Design and Drafting hours accumulated over the previous month’s billing period.

NOTE: It is standard practice to stop all work on projects when outstanding invoices become thirty days past due.

NOTE: It is standard practice to demote projects to a lower calendar priority when outstanding invoices become thirty days past due.

NOTE: Final payment is required prior to final plan set delivery.

reimbursable expenses:
will be added to monthly invoices and may include costs associated with:

surveying
structural, mechanical and/or electrical engineering
architectural review committee preparations/presentations
city pre-application meetings
printing and blueprinting
phone/fax
clerical services related to your account
travel, lodging and dining
postage
photography and original artwork

Consulting on interior details, landscaping, lighting and other design-related services not covered by this proposal will be billed at our standard rate of $75.00 per hour.

Thank you for trusting LOG RHYTHMS, INC with your home plans. We look forward to working with you on this project.

[Dan Bodenstein]

Greg,

As a designer, I'd assume that you'd prefer someone come to you with a crude CAD drawing, rather than drawings on a napkin, or mere ideas from magazine.

What is your perspective on personal Home designer software?

Dan

[Greg Steckler]

It really doesn't matter, Dan. Napkins, sketches, magazine clippings, rough drawings, even the results of my old design kit...we can work with it all. Obviously, the more thought out the project is, the easier and faster it can be brought to final construction documents. But it is all a journey and the concept is the begining of the dream and should be savored all the way through. I am designing the last home for my self for the last several years and it changes all the time. I probably won't really "go for it" for a another year but I enjoy the vision daily.

Personal home design software can be fun and that's certainly what we all want. If you enjoy drawing and seeing your thoughts on the computer screen or paper, do it, spend a few bucks and have fun. It will convince you, I'll wager, that you will probably want someone with a decent amount of experience to do the final set...especially, if you intend to have the project bid.

Which brings up a question I've been wondering about lately...who really is drawing the plans for the 25,000 log homes built in North America each year?

[Dan Bodenstein]

Greg,

I have planbooks from dozens of manufacturers.
Looking over them, there are very few "original" deisgners.

Most of the are carbon copies of each other.
Of course, they just move the door, the laundry room or the mud room to make them original.

Dan

[Kyle - Utah]

Okay,

This has obviously become the CAD thread. That works too.

For those wanting FREE log home plans, the first step is to download a free utility called Volo View Express. This utility will allow you to view and print files created with Autodesk's AutoCad and even files created with SolidWorks and other quality CAD packages.

I would also suggest that you steer clear of those CAD drawings created with Design Cad and other shareware and freeware packages. It's not that these packages are inefficient; in many cases they're just as good as the 'big boy' packages. It's just that AutoCad programming is a requirement for any degreed program for architecture, engineering, and even surveying. If an individual is using something other than AutoCad then it's my opinion that they are likely to be other than professionals with degrees in the fields that apply to log home building.

Back to the point here, once you've got Volo View Express loaded do a search including the words, "Log," "Home," "Timber Framed," "Timber Framing," and the suffixes, ".dws," ".dwg," and ".dxf." Some combinations of these names will be more productive than others. Also, try various search engines. I have found that about a half-hour's searching produced over a dozen log home plans in full CAD layout.

Once you've got a few sets of plans in front of you, you'll know why it is that designers charge an arm and a leg to do the layouts for you. Many, if not most, of these plans will be in full scale drawings with the proper symbols in the proper places. You will notice that there are various icons for various types of windows and doors. Even electrical outlets and types of water pipes have different symbols. Ie. A dedicated circuit uses a different icon than a general outlet. GFCI plugs look different than unshielded plugs, Copper water pipe is coded differently than Galvanized Iron, and the list goes on and on. Understanding what these symbols mean is a tiny part of the reason why it is that everyone out there is not qualified to be a General Contractor.

If the CAD designer is unaware of the various symbols then you could just as easily hand the General a graph paper layout with the walls and windows marked in with pencil. If done properly, a CAD layout proves that a picture really is worth ten-thousand words.

It would also prove useful to ask your CAD professional for a copy of his or her credentials. What certifications do they possess? Are they truly skilled designers or do they just think that they are? I should note that the producers of the software packages themselves offer certifications so that an individual need not 'waste' four to six years of his or her life just to get a college degree. Qualifications are available to anyone at any time, so there really are no excuses for a lack of verifiable certification. Chances are that most truly qualified CAD designers out there have, and are quite proud to share, their credentials.

Of the free plans that you are likely to download, check the bottom right corner of each page. It will usually contain a box that includes the designer's name, any copyright information, and his or her credentials. If you like something that you find in the free stuff, check for an e-Mail address in this box so that you can contact the designer for a list of current design rates. In a sluggish economy you are quite likely to find some deep discounts. You are also likely to find that designers will have lists of predesigned 'packages' available at standard 'list' prices. Don't be afraid to haggle on these prices. Offering to pay the listed price as long as it includes up to two major modifications is not at all unreasonable. Part of the beauty of the 'big boy' CAD packages is that it's only a matter of dragging a section a fraction of an inch to add two feet to the entire structure. If properly configured, this will also prompt the designer for modifications to electrical outlets, heating vents, window sizes, and other essential and obvious changes. This might mean up to five minutes of work on a single story structure or ten to fifteen minutes on a multiple story structure. The same holds true for moving an internal load-bearing wall. The properly configured CAD package will notify the designer if the proposed change creates an unstable or dangerous condition.

Another feature included with the 'big boy' packages is 3-D rendering. It allows for a full 3-D texturing of an existing set of CAD drawings. Plan rendering is not generally offfered by amatuer designers. They generally offer an either/or approach. One reason for this is the fact that minor inconsistencies in layers (design pages) can show up as major flaws in a rendered drawing. If a CAD designer offers a full 3-D rendered example of the drafted layout that you are interested in purchasing, then chances are that the designer knows what he or she is doing. If, on the other hand, the designer offers only 'walk throughs' of selected drafted layouts, either the designer did not want to spend the time rendering all of his or her layouts or he or she is still learning how to render. (Do you really want to be the 'Guinea Pig' that the designer uses along his or her learning curve?)

CAD is a wonderful tool for the prospective log home builder. 3-D renderings make for a truly unique 'walk-through' of the plans. Free log home plans in full CAD format are available and out there for the asking. Volo View Express can offer the 'novice' a free and simple way to view what they find. Your questions of the designer will 'weed out' the amateurs from the professionals. Probably the quickest and easiest way to do this is to ask about the designers' qualifications and certifications. And, once you find a plan that you like, don't be afraid to haggle on the price that you are willing to pay. After all, there are literally thousands of people out there who are fighting for your business.

Best Regards

[Dan Bodenstein]

Maestro,

Some of the most original designs I've seen were from Rocky Mountain Log Homes. Now, I am not saying anything about them or their packages, but some of their designs are really unique.

There is no way I would try to create blueprints myself. For that I would always rely on a skilled designer and/or engineer. (the two are not the same).

But, I think it adds to the whole log home experience to be able to design your own home. Why do log home companies allow for "free changes" to their canned plans, because they know every one is not the same.

A Log Home is not like a conventional home. You don't walk into a Divosta showroom and say give me this model with these cabinets, this carpet and this tile.

The Log Home experience is much more than that. It's personal. It's those personal touches that make it a unique venture for everyone involved. From the lighting to the hardware, it's all a personal touch.

Designing your own home on a home CAD program is part of that experience. Design your home. Make changes. When you think your done, put it away for a while. come back to it and make more changes.

When the time is right, you'll know when you need to have your drawings turned into blueprints.

Dan

[Tim Bullock]

Design.....Hmmmmmmmm.......big topic for sure. We are dinasours in that area as we still hand draw everything although a lot of construction details are moving to ACad. Design really comes down to "feelings" with costs as a consideration.........The majority of people know exactly what they want to "feel" when they are in their home and a designer must be able to interpret that into workable drawings within budget parameters. All of the technology in the world does not a designer make!!!! Nor does a degree in architecture. It is a gift bestowed upon very few.

[guzzimaster]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan Bodenstein
[B]I have been working with a home design software package from Punch Software called Professional Home Design.

Snip,

Hi folks, Yes, Punch is Pretty good. I can't get it to do floorjoists on the foundation, and the foundation part ain't that great. The roof part is confusing and it won't to elevations or cut-aways to for the building permits some of us need.
If you'd like to see "My Sing Log Home" project using PUNCH to produce what it can. Go to: http://www.inet-rendezvous.com/tanglewoods.htm

Let me know if anyone needs more info on Punch. (it should do more, it should/could do logs)
IMHO
See Ya,
Guzzimaster

[Tim Bullock]

It is fine for people to work on the design of their own log homes and I would encourage it for sure.........However, The Caveat being that most experienced log home designers see things that 99.9% of the public miss including architects. These "misses" can be both costly in terms of construction and costly in terms of the comfort of a log home that "actual" people live in. IMHO, great designers have to park their egos and "listen" to the clients........

[Dan Bodenstein]

I think people should use personal home designer software. It will give them more flexability than going with a designer at first.

I have been working on my next log home design. I have drastically changed it twice. What would that cost me with a designer?

Once I have my drawings done, I will bring them to a designer or engineer.

Are designers also engineers?

I don't think you need to be an enginner to be a designers.

Any thoughts on that?

Dan

[Dan Bodenstein]

maestro,

with my designs, I like to work on them, then put them aside for a few months, then go back to them with a fresh perspective.
Home designer software allows me to do this.

I doubt a designer would work with me like that for the next 5 years.

I understand that they charge per square foot, but how many changes are permitted. There has to be limitations stipulated. Why would a designer work on plans and make constant changes without due compensation.

Dan

[Stephanie]

Oops, Sorry Dan, didn't see your post! I saw the wood grain, but wish I could show log corners!

I want to make a gingerbread construction, actually. Tastier than dowel rods!
;)

[Tim Bullock]

Dan, Our policy is pretty simple when it comes to design..........We accept a fee for design and let the client make as many changes as desired...........However, sometimes (seldom), we do not "click" with a client and cannot do it for whatever reason, we refund a portion of the $$$$$ and both of us can move on. Being that we are pretty interpretative, this has not happened in the last 10 years but am not so ego driven that it couldn't happen again.