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  #1  
Old 03-31-2005, 01:51 PM
timrec timrec is offline
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Water-based stain over oil-based stain?

I am preparing to re-stain my home. Currently I have Woodgaurd oil-based stain applied. The stain was applied when the home was new about three years ago. I have been disappointed with the oil-based stain since there has been sporatic black mold in various places and the stain seems to attract dirt. I would like to move to a water-based stain instead of the oil-based.
1. Can I apply a water-based stain over my pre-existing oil-based stain? I plan to use a 50% mixture of bleach and water to powerspray the existing surface and prepare it for my new stain.
2. When is the best temperature/weather to re-stain.
3. Is it better to spray the stain or brush it on? Perhaps this depends on the manufacturers instructions.
4. Any recommendations on a good water-based stain?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 03-31-2005, 02:15 PM
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Mike Bailey Mike Bailey is offline
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You can put a water borne stain over an oil, but not the other way around. Remember when using any semi transparent stain, any discoloration of the surface that you start with with be visible when you're finished.
As for application... That's up to you. Most can be sprayed with an airless sprayer and back brushed to work the finish in. I prefer to brush everything since I have to back brush anyway, but the choice is yours.
I am a Perma-Chink fan, so you know what my answer is on brand choice.
Most important thing to remember is SURFACE PREP. Make sure your surface is clean and free of mildew, dirt, pollen, etc. before you stain! Again, What is on there before you stain will be there afterwards.
Good Luck,
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Old 03-31-2005, 03:05 PM
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One more thing.... Application temp should be between 40-90 degrees F. Don't apply in direct sun (may cause the stain to dry to quick and create lap marks if you're not careful) and if the temp dips below freezing a few hours after you've finished.... You're still in good shape !
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:41 AM
ccarrie ccarrie is offline
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Timrec: Permachink and Sansin both produce top quality water based stains. We used both stains and were very happy with the results.
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Old 04-07-2005, 07:06 AM
SLHC SLHC is offline
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I think you need to go down to bare logs.The black mold you are taking about is more likely a sign of a failed finish.Remember,your new coating will be only as good as the old one.Even water base needs to penetrate for proper performace .

G.Rizijs

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Old 04-11-2005, 12:32 PM
timrec timrec is offline
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How would you suggest "going down to the bare log?"
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Old 04-12-2005, 01:20 PM
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I have a follow up on the subject. I have stained my share of furniture and trim and pine is some of the most unpreditable wood in terms of blotchiness and acceptance of stain. I have always used oil based products and a pre-conditioner when necessary. Is there any merit to the proposition that water based stains from companies like Permachink or Sansin apply more evenly and are accepted by the logs without the blocthiness one can expect from rubbing an oil stain on pine logs? I've not seen any mention of a pre-conditioner for the water based log stains.
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Old 04-12-2005, 03:26 PM
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Timrec,
Going down to bare wood can be achieved using several methods. The 3 most popular are chemical stripping/pressure wash, corn cob blasting, or sanding.
The first two will leave the wood grain open and subject to a darker or more intense look when stain is applied. You can either apply a thin, clear primer coat or do a quick buffing to keep this from happening.

Alan,
Waterborne stains are no less susceptable to darker/lighter areas than oil. As all wood has varying degrees of porosity, it is difficult to prevent your pigments from absorbing in some areas more than others. The exception to that is mentioned above. Perma-Chink has a product called "After-Blast" which is a water based primer aiding in a more uniform application of stain. As it is waterborne, it can only be used with waterborne stains, oil will not penetrate.
Applying evenly and keeping a "wet edge" will also give you the desired look. While staining is a tad more difficult than painting, with a little experience you'll most likely be fine.
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Old 04-20-2005, 12:48 PM
timrec timrec is offline
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A few more questions:
1. I am considering Sansin Classic. They recommend the following prior to application:
Existing coating or sealant: remove with Sansin Paint & Stain Remover according to directions for use.
Has anyone used the Sansin paint and stain remover and did it work well?

2. If I use a chemical method of stain removal, would it be acceptable to apply a borate (ie. Timbor) once the stain was removed? When I first applied stain to my new home three years ago, I wasn't aware that I should have applied the Borate at that time.

3. Also, I don't really understand how Sansin is a water based stain when it contains oil. I currently have woodgaurd which is oil based and I was wanting to move away from oil-based due to it's tendency to collect dirt.

thanks.
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  #10  
Old 04-20-2005, 04:30 PM
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Tim Bullock Tim Bullock is offline
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timrec, I cannot comment on the Sansin paint and stain remover but I can comment on the company. We have worked "with" Sansin since their inception and like the company and the followups with problems and there are problems when dealing with finishes. Everything to date has been 100% and NO, I do not get a special discount. IF, you have a problem, they resolve it and IF you need technical advice, they are there after the sale or before the sale. IF you have any doubts, call them again.
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  #11  
Old 04-20-2005, 06:27 PM
Jon Fife Jon Fife is offline
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TimRec,

1) regarding Sansin/remover, I'd say it works as well as everything else out there, which is acceptable. You could probably find something local and cheaper, but I'd go with what htey say if you're going with their stains, in case you have a problem. Ask them what the acting chemical is in their stripper, and I can help you more on what you'll achieve.

2) regarding borate, I wouldn't waste my time unless you do like a Shellguard or Bora-care treatment. I consider something like Timbor to be topical and an up-sell at best. Might be useful if going some time between washing and staining, but I wouldn't expect any magical results from it, as you might expect after reading the labels on some of that stuff.

3) Regarding water/oil, I believe the term most use is "waterborne." I believe it is an oil molecule wrapped in a water molecule through advanced chemistry. It could be visa versa, which would make more sense to me. You'd have to have a chemist or someone well-versed in the makeup of these stains to explain it to you. Someone at Sansin should be able to, and leave you understanding exactly what is happening. I can tell you it is a common type of stain, the waterborne type.

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